Folding Tandem for the train!




I have never been a serious cyclist, but have always had bikes. The elegance of simple efficient transport coupled with 'it’s good for you', not forgetting the environmental benefits, has always appealed.
Following a ski-ing mishap, my wife Sabrina's physio suggested that cycling would help her torn ligament, so the idea of getting a Tandem slowly evolved. A tandem could balance-up our mutual efforts - if one leg out of 4 did very little, it would not really matter.
As a youngster I was interested in veteran bicycles, and had owned an old heavy pre-war tandem, so I was not a tandem novice. 
We managed to buy a second-hand low-cost tandem.  'Low cost’, meaning that it uses standard wheels and parts.  This means that it would probably break or wear out quicker because it is carrying twice the average weight.   However, as occasional users, this has not been a problem.
We took this tandem on several trips to France,  with the technique of laying the tandem flat on the roof bars.

We don’t particularly like driving.  Trains seem far more relaxing and far more sociable, so we considered a folding tandem that we could take on the train.

We were at a musical event in Dolgellau, and noticed a very functional-looking tandem outside. It had expensive-looking frame couplings, so could be split and folded up.  We soon became friends with the owners and heard all about their epic trips spanning many months, so our idea of a brief trip to France seemed possible.

When we looked at available tandems, there seemed to be either expensive or low-cost options, with little in between.  Given we are 'not serious' cyclists, and we were not sure how much we would use a folding tandem, I was erring on the side of low-cost.
We looked at the Ecosmo 20” wheel folding tandem.  At the time, it was £300...  How can they make a good tandem for £300?!, so various things went through my mind...  the unfairness of cheap labour in poor countries, the thought that this bike must be far inferior to our friends and others tandems.
After much deliberation we decided to buy this tandem with the expectation of spending a bit on modification, and also acknowledging that we would need to be very gentle with it.

So, here we are with a low cost 20” wheel tandem, not knowing if we had wasted our money or not.
I only discovered after the purchase that the chain wheels had independent freewheels in them.. i.e. either of us could stop pedalling independently. This also meant we could become out of sync.
Our initial ride on it heightened our confidence.  The free-wheel pedals we no problem at all, and we could see some advantages.  The steering was good, a little different from our other large-wheeled version, but it felt quite sure-footed.  The other worry was the need to remove the chain before folding it, however, this is a quick and easy operation, and not messy once a technique is mastered.

Having taken it out on several day trips, we decided to plan a trip with by train to France from mid-Wales.  This focused my mind on modifications.

The gearing   
The bike came with Shimano 7 speed derailleur gears.  The rear sprocket block was 14 – 28 teeth, meaning that top gear was only twice that of bottom – top gear was too low, and bottom gear too high.   I quickly learnt the difference between 'freewheel' and 'cassette' gears, and bought a second hand 'cassette' hub and new sprocket via Ebay, with teeth ranging from 11 to 32 teeth. (the chainset is 44 teeth).  By luck the ratios proved to be perfect for us – 32 is nice and low for steep inclines (though we do our best to avoid hills!).   Top gear is good enough since we never go very fast and pedal at the same time.  I am also mindful that this 11 tooth cog is quite small, so 2 people driving the one rear cog could be asking for trouble.....   we never pedal that hard!!

Brakes
Given that this tandem has standard rim brakes, and potentially twice the weight,  I was a little worried about the 20” rims overheating down a long hill. In fact I had heard 1st hand of brake failure on a tandem.  I looked into disc brakes, and so bought a new front hub and disk. I used an on-line spoke calculator and got my head around 2-cross and 3-cross lacing allowing use of the original spokes.  I spent a long time in a bike shop with an espionage hat on and took various measurements.  I rejected any bolt-on disc calliper holders and chose to silver solder on a lug to bolt the brake to.   It’s excellent!  Much nicer to have a brake that can be relied upon.  I guess I could have put the disc on the back since I changed that hub with the gearing. I think one disc on either wheel would have done for us.  
Note; brazing and the right silver solder is strong. Other solders are inherently weak.

We then found out a bit about the facilities that trains have for taking bikes.  Some hang, some stay horizontal.    The next mod was to work out a way of standing the folded bike in a vertical position.   When folded, the rear handlebars come off, so I managed to silver-solder on a pipe and clamp so that the bars could become a tripod with the seat.   This proved to work well, and was a necessity when the bike needed to be upright as on some of the French trains.



Above, showing handlebars forming tripod stand

Left, close-ups of pipe stub (could be old seat clamp) that I silver soldered on to the frame


Trailer
I then got to thinking about carrying luggage.  We had decided on the luxury of B&B (unlike our stoic friends who camp!), so we should not need a great deal of luggage. However, any extra weight on the wheels could cause problems, so I decided to make a little trailer.  It wanted to be narrow, so I based it around on medium-small suitcase on its edge.   I managed to find an old pushchair with nice wheels, and set about silver-soldering up a frame to fit the suit case.  I managed to make the frame so it could be taken apart very quickly, leaving 2 items for the train: 1) The folded tandem and trailer in one manageable piece, 2) the suitcase.    It proved to work really well. The folded Tandem was easily wheeled along and easily carried into the train.



The Tandem with trailer stowed away on various trains









Summary of the Ecosmo folding tandem.

As supplied, it is perfectly adequate for short distance cycling if it’s not too hilly.  It’s small enough to fit in most cars.. even small cars  It’s quick and easy to fold.   We reckon we can fold or unfold in about 4 minutes, but when fully loaded with the trailer, this extends to around 6 minutes.

It does however have limited gearing.   Fitting wide-ratio gears (probably needing a new rear hub) is not as hard as it sounds.  We found this mod vital.   The original fitments were Shimano, so good-enough quality.

The brakes are fine, but if you found yourself  loaded up at the top of a hill, you might be wishing you had a disc.  I guess either a front or a rear disc brake would suffice.  Our 160mm one works fine.
The tripod mod (using rear handlebars) is another worthwhile feature for certain trains.    
A seat clamp sawn off an old bike frame could be used. This operation is quite tricky. Time is needed to make sure the position is exactly right

Other mods I have yet to do;
A steering clamp (as fitted to some veteran bikes) would be handy for leaning the bike up. It simply makes the bars stiff from turning.
A proper clip to hold the bike in the folded position would be better than using the provided Velcro belt, or using a bungee cord.
Other than that, I cannot think of any mods

What might break?   This bike is not really designed to do very high mileage, and a few little details seem slightly suspect.  The easy-to-use clips that hold the folding clamps seem a little ‘light’, but if they need attention in the future, this should be relatively easy to remedy.

Message to Ecosmo, - I think the bike would look more aesthetically pleasing if the two crossbars met at the same level in the middle.  Oh, and if you are listening.... well done...  good design.

I am hard to please, and have an engineer's attitude – "look for problems and try to fix them".  I know that my wife is surprised that I'm not more critical of the bike, so it must be good!    If you do buy one though, I suggest that you allot some funds for improvements, and treat it with care.

I did actually spend 20 mins wondering about battery-assisting it. You can get a 20" electric hub.. could even push from a trailer.   I then realised that this was a daft idea.  The simple answer is... don't go quite so far, and allow time for plenty of coffee stops! 

==============================================
It's now 2023, and after much dithering and thought, we have gone electric!  We did wonder if it would be a slippery slope, but it does mean we can go further & faster uphill.  On the comments below you will read a lot of very excellent useful info about others (Mainly Shrimpy, Dod and others) who have also fitted an electric front hub.  
For us, only 250w front hub seemed the obvious choice. We only want 'assistance', and actually, we very rarely use top-power (level 5).    We went for a Yose system. Partly chosen because we liked the battery shape that easily removes for charging.  All electric hubs look the same, but build-quality no doubt varies. I have seen a poor quality one, and possibly/probably the Swytch (as Shrimpy describes) is better than our Yose... I don't know. It was nice that it has a disc brake flange.  Anyhow. the various electric cables plugs and sockets all look good quality.
When we first tried it, I initially didn't really like the noise.. It's no longer silent, and if we are in peaceful country, the slight whine is a little unwelcome, but that is very subjective.  It's put the weight of the bike up, and as yet, have not done a train trip, but I think we would manage OK.
Charging power is very small, and as yet, not had to charge away from home, but wonder if that could be slightly problematic finding a useable plug.  It seems to use 90W of mains power, so say about 3.5p/hr at present. 
Anyhow, a few pictures.   I spent a bit of time with some white paint.....  It makes people smile :)






Comments

  1. Do you know what the bike weighs?

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    1. Good point! I should have said. Ecosmo say 23kg (51lb), so I assume that is right. I easily manage to pick it up with both hands and walk onto a train with it. Easier still with two people. Most people who have tried lifting it to gauge the weight have said its reasonably light.

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  2. Hi,

    I am thinking about getting one of these for me and my 5 year old boy. Do you think a kiddy crank could be fitted to this bike and still be able to fold. Would appreciate any insight. Many thanks. Nathan

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    1. I would think this would be OK. I just had a look at our bike, and I see no reason why not. Each chain wheel has a free-wheel in it, so either person can stop pedalling independant of the others. This would be ideal. I think you would need to add a crank for the kiddie chain. Ours is folded now, and it looks as if it would fold just the same with akiddie crank. I'll take a pic if you like

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  3. Many thanks that's really useful.. Will be great to get out about the country with the lad for the summer.

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    1. Hi,
      Did you manage to get it working with a child?
      Am thinking of doing the same.

      Would it take a child seat too? Would allow me to take the smallest with me too.

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    2. I bought one of these magnificent tandem last year, had been using it on daily basis, during the week to take my 5 yr old on the school runs, then came weekend added a child seat on the rear pannier to convert to a 3 seater for the whole family. My wife was not a bike person prior to this but she was converted by how easy it was to ride, and the great fun of travelling together on a tandem. Until one day our fun commute came crashing down when the tandem was stolen by some opportunist, my fault to asume that no one would steal such a heavy beast and that it would be secure by a cable lock. The day I went to pick up my daughter without the tandem she was devastated to learn someone had taken it and burst out in tears.

      Like John I also made a few improvements on the tandem, first tried 28-11 freewheel but couldn't get it to shift properly, there were always a couple of gears that wouldn't shift into place no matter how I adjusted the derailleur. Then I changed back to the original freewheel set and had the chain ring changed to 48T. We found this shift much smoother. As for the young stoker, I got her a pair of crank shorteners, these are very hard to come by and often cost a fortune, I sourced ours from hollandbikeshop, note 17mm crank shoreners are designed for vintage cranks, they require adapter to go on modern cranks also available from the same shop. We found the rear pannier sturdy and sufficient to support the weight of our child, so we got her a pannier mounted child seat again from Holland and a pair of screw on footpegs in place of the rear axle nuts for her to rest her foot on. When the 3 of us were all on the tandem, the little one's face was quite close to mum's back, and she liked to wrap her arms around mum's waist and put her hands in mum's jacket pocket to keep warm in the winter.

      We also got a front pannier (front wheel axle mounted) guess where from holland so that I could hang my rucksack on the handlebar and when loaded with shopping its weight would be supported by the front wheel as oppose to the handlebar.

      My daughter still tells us that she misses the tandem, I noticed Ecosmo has brought out a new one in white, very tempted to go through the whole process again.

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    3. This is very interesting.

      There is a faceboom group: family cycling uk. They are very friendly and i am sure would love to hesr about your experience - especially if you have pictures. A common complaint is that family bikes, cant go on trains - but if it folds .... no problem.

      Did you ride with 2 x adults and 1x child, or was it 1 x adult with 2 x children?

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    4. Thanks for the recommendation, will check out the fb group and post some photos.

      We took the plunge of re-purchasing the same folding tandem recently, and made the same modifications all over again. During school days it hosts an adult captain and a 6 year old child stoker, then comes weekend, crank shorteners off, two adults on the pedals and the little one goes behind the stoker. Though I haven't tried, I think it would also work for 1 adult and 2 children.

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  4. Excellent write up, we have the same Tandem and equally have found the gearing way to high, I also found the front seat post far to low (I am 6ft 1) - Extended seat post solved that :-)

    I am about to change the chain-rings to 42 teeth, and will probably fit a 14-34 megarange freewheel, but we will see how it goes!

    I am also very impressed with the build quality and am very happy with our decision to get one :-)

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    1. How did you get on with changing the chain rings John? Thinking of it too, as would like higher cruising ratios.

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  5. Great little blog post John - all the stuff I wanted to know. I have the same issue as you did.. we have a conventional tandem that we like riding, but that we cannot take on a train - so lots of my "out by bike, back by train" routes that I do on my own cant be done together. Sounds like this little tandem is worth a look. Many thanks for posting.

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  6. Earlier this year we went to France on the train, and I had a good opportunity to test the brakes down a long hill. We stopped OK, but there was not a lot of extra braking power if we had needed it. I fitted a normal 160mm disk at the front, and removed the caliper brakes. I did wonder if I should have fitted a bigger disc. Maybe I could re-fit the original calipers for emergency use. Not ideal because I would have 3 brake levers.... maybe fitted to the frame at the back?

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  7. My partner and I are considerably heavier, totaling perhaps 420 pounds plus panniers. Do you think the Ecosmo could handle our weight on a river path (Rhein-Mosel)?

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    1. Mmm.. hard to know. River paths can be a bit rough, so extra strain on things. The wheels are standard 20", so not really designed for more than one person. We are average weight, and I dont feel its a problem. That said, I would think twice about going on a long journey. I added our trailer, in-part to take weight off the wheels. We also travel light.
      So, I'm still sitting on the fence re answering your question. I'm reluctant to be too positive in case you run into trouble. That said, you could even consider a stronger back wheel (though dont know where you would get one) so that you could take more luggage on the back.

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    2. The Mosel paths we rode are really good. Mostly smooth and tarmaced. Occasional tree root bumbs but otherwise good. Rode from Nancy to Koblenz

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  8. Small wheels are stronger than big wheels, the wheels on my Ecosmo tandem are both 36 spoke ! front wheels normally have less than 36 spokes , the rims are deep-ish - (strong) , bmx wheels are the same size and have 48 spokes if needed.

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  9. I dont understand why someone's comment won't publish here, so here it is below, and my comment below that.
    =========================
    Hi,
    Did you manage to get it working with a child?
    Am thinking of doing the same.

    Would it take a child seat too? Would allow me to take the smallest with me too.
    =========================
    I would think its quite good for a child, but depending on age. The rear seat can go quite low, and you could probably estimate this from one of the pictures. The fact that the pedals rotate independantly is a big help for a novice on the back. e.g. the front person can pedal, and the rear one can do no pedaling at first, then join in if they wish.

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    1. thanks John - much appreciated

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    2. Hi. In the past, I have had problems attempting to leave comments, on various blogs, or, indeed, when replying to comments on my own blog(s). I don't have a definitive answer, but, in my case, it appears to be linked to use of an Apple Macbook and Safari, everything works as expected with Windows, and Ubuntu, but, with the Macbook, I just cannot get it to work. ;)

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  10. Just modified gears on ours. What a difference!! Thanks so much for the tip.

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    1. I didnt change the chain front ring. For us, changing the back to 11-32 seemed good enough. It looks easy-enough to change the chain ring if you can track down the right size. Let me know if you manage it.

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  11. Hi. Thanks for this post. May I ask what your heights are please. And have you had any problems with bike?

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    1. I'm nearly 6' . I dont find the bike too small. Had no problems, BUT we do treat it carefully, and don't do lots of miles.

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    2. Thanks for the quick response. I didn't know this was a possible solution I have of me loving cycling but my wife hating it (would rather have a G&T)

      As we've never used a tandem before. Is this type easier if harder than a 26inch one?

      Also. After a practice would 10-15 mile each way ride be doable on the factory 36T for etc

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  12. One good thing is that the chainwheels have freewheels in so your wife can stop pedalling at any time. I wasnt sure if this was good or not at first since the two peddlers can be out of sync, but actually its fine. Our original gearing was only OK for flat-ish terrain. not low enough for up hills and no good fast. OK for around town. I find the small wheels OK - it seems steady to me, but some prefer normal-size wheels.

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  13. Thanks for all your help

    I'll start some research.

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  14. I have just changed my chain wheel from 36 to 48 and am pleased with the 30% increase in the ratios. However, I had a problem in the lowest gear with the chain riding off the enlarged chain wheel. I have now fitted a mountain-bike style Chain Guide clamped to the frame vertical, which seems to have fixed it. I'll think about a larger range cassette as my next mod, but the current 14-28 cassette seems to be good enough except on the steepest hills.
    I'm loving the tandem, and my wife, who has never ridden a bike, is becoming a proficient stoker.

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    1. Any info on changing chain ring would be appreciated. Did you change all 3?

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    2. I made the mistake of doing that, and then realised that it is only the back one that matters!

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  15. Just fitted electric front wheel pedal assist. Really handy for getting up medium hills. We did the cassette last year and now are looking at changing the chainrings once I get to grips with how they are defined etc. Ken Hart if you have any tips that would be great. We love our tandem!!

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  16. Hi John. First of all, thank you for an entertaining and informative read!

    We have just bought an Ecosmo folding tandem (in white). The most recent models have disc brakes (cable not hydraulic), as standard. However, the gearing is still too low, even for us geriatrics!

    May I trouble you to ask a couple of questions about your chainwheel modifications?

    1. Where did you source compatible chainwheel? ie correct BCD, whatever that may be
    2. It would appear from your photographs that you also changed the Chainwheel guard?
    3. I assume you did not change the pilot to stoker chain rings, but, only the "final drive"

    One again, thank you for the read, and, thanks in advance for any future information.

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  17. Hello Ken, I'm am no expert on terminology, but I tend to use 'chanwheel' for the front ones on the pedal cranks, and use sprocket for the rear ones. Anyhow, i didnt change any of the front ones. When I bought the bike, i assumed that I could easily buy a 7-speed cluster of sprockets of many sizes, however, I was wrong, and I learnt the difference between what they call 'freewheel' and 'cassette'. My Ecosmo originally had a 'freewheel' This is a threaded block of 7 cogs with the 'ratchet/freewheel' in it. I could not find the right ratios. I realised I needed to change to a 'cassette' system. This has the ratchet/freewheel in the hub, and you can slide on any cogs of your choice. This allowed a much wider ratio between 'top' and 'bottom' gear.
    I assume Ecosmo still use the 'freewheel' type. If so, you schould be able to get an improvement of the original 14-28 (smallest to biggest). Some have a large jump between 1st and 2nd.
    Anyhow, i went through the laborious exercise of buying a new rear hub (from an individual on ebay) I then re-laced the wheel... not an east job. I will post this, then look for freewheels, to see what is available that would improve the standard gearing
    one thought... is the white model the same gearing? 14 smallest and 28 largest? A dab of tippex can help if you are counting teeth.

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    1. Hi John. I have changed the chainwheel (ie the inner, rear, which drives the rear freewheel), with a 42T one, bought off eBay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/104bcd-64bcd-24-26-32-38-42T-Double-Triple-Speed-Chainring-MTB-Bike-Crankset/153636482419?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=453657715665&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649).

      One thing learned already, the Chainrings are 104BCD.

      After much head scratching, I concluded it was not necessary to change all three Chainrings, since, it is only the final drive which matters.

      The actual change is not technically difficult, and, I managed to do it, without removing the Crankset. A little patience to "wiggle" the spacers and bolts into place (plus, just a little swearing).

      I noted that the sequence of rings and spaces, as supplied, is Chainwheel guard/spacer/chainwheel to front drive/crankset/spacer/Drive Chainwheel.

      I did encounter a problem. Once reassembled, the chain rode up on the new chain ring, when the highest gear was selected, and, eventually, the chain came off.

      I also noticed that the clearance between the new, larger diameter chainwheel, and, the rear fork, was alarmingly small.

      My next move was to remove it all again, and, change the sequence of spaces, to:
      Chainwheel guard/spacer/Chainwheel to front drive/spacer/Crankset/drive chainwheel.

      The effect of this was to move the (new) drive chainwheel "out" towards the crank, by the thickness of a spacer.

      This appears to have prevented the chain riding up the new chainwheel and coming off.

      It has, however, "upset" the indexing adjustment of the gears. My next task is to attempt to adjust/fix that.

      I have not yet determined the count of teeth on the freewheel sprockets, but, I will, and get back to you.

      I have had a very short test ride (solo), and, the small change from 36T to 42T, appears to have made an appreciable difference.

      I will report back when I have adjusted the gears, and, hopefully had a longer test ride, with stoker (wife), in place.

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  18. I think this is a better option. this is 14-34teeth https://www.tweekscycles.com/uk/shimano-7-speed-multiple-freewheel-244795/?sku=MADMFTZ5007434&istCompanyId=56f52ebf-49f3-492a-9cbb-cb6ab0fc1bf0&istFeedId=33b89177-5114-4491-9c2a-09a3a7cb23b2&istItemId=wplrtixaq&istBid=t&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI76mStZip6QIVbIBQBh2AxAo_EAQYASABEgINifD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

    this one appears to have a big jump, but its can be good enough. the 34 cog is what you need for hill...... dont get the wrong idea... we dont do hills, only inclines!!

    you would need to check each of the 7 speed cogs to make sure the pictures of the abouve 2 look different, but dont trust the pictures too much

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  19. Sorry, I think I left a link to another site off my last post, but they are easily googled. It does seem that 14-28 (the original) is common, and some are identical, but with a 34 instead of the 28. This may be worth fitting since its relatively easy. There might be other options, but are very expensive for an even spread between low and high. I remeber giving up at this point and deciding to go for the 'cassette' system. I only regret not fitting a disk at the back. I never thought of that!!

    I look forward to seeing one of the newer (white) models. It seems like it has some improvements

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    1. I am assured by Ecosmo, that, other than colour, the black and the white models, are the same specification. Certainly, the box mine came in, had stencil markings on the outside of the box, for black and white, with a tick alongside the white.

      Except for the addition of disc brakes, the specification does not appear to have changed from the previous models.

      Given that almost every comment from users indicates the gearing is too low, one would have thought the would have perhaps addressed this problem?

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  20. I have found a 13-34 7 speed freewheel - do you think the mech will cope with that? Also I am 6'2", do you think an extended seat pillar would work for me?

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    1. I expect it would fit, could not be certain. For me, the chain length and the gear change mechanism worked fine with my 11-32. I just looked, and my chain is getting on the tight side on the 32 cog. If 34 teeth, the chain would have little 'slack'. maybe the chain would need lengthening?? I don't know.
      is there a wide-enough gap beweeen speeds 2,3,4,5,6 & 7. I know when I firsts looked. I found a well-priced freewheel where only the 1st gear was low. All others were the same as the original.
      Re seat post. I am about 6ft, and have the post quite high. I would have thought it could be extended more without problem. Personally, I would not worry by adding a couple of inches to the top of a seat post, but as an engineer, I do have a sense of stresses and strains.

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  21. Reporting back, after fitting 42T Chainring, in place of the 36T supplied as standard. Original 14-28 7 speed Shimano Freewheel. The chain, as supplied, is long enough. For our fitness level, and, the (relatively flat) terrain local to us, this appears to give a good result. We have now done 3 times ten mile outings, without a problem. Slightly more hilly terrain may benefit from a 14-32 or 14-34 on the rear.

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    1. Glad to hear your gears are better now. Interestingly, our chainwheel is 42 tooth. Have Ecosmo therfore supply different gearing variants? Did you say yours is the newer version? Ours is probably 4 years old now

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  22. John, great write up. Thanks very much.

    I've just bought a new one this week (August 2020). I've been riding/building/modifying tandems and folding bikes all my life and have 35 years tandeming under my belt. Here is my take on gears:

    Yes the current models come with the 14-28 freewheel and now a 36T chainring. This is a drop down from the 42T chainring on John's older bike. I assume this was to generate a lower hill climbing gear because, as we know, tandems do not climb so well. Trouble is, this gives a gear range of 25.71" to 51.43". This is fine uphill but useless anywhere else. Basically at 51.43" top you are really spinning at 9mph and have to coast at 10mph until speed drops. No good on a tandem. This is not a criticism of the product which is built to a price remember. So, what to do? Well I've considered ALL possible options and have concluded there is only one perfect upgrade for the bike which retains the very low hill climbing gear a tandem needs alonsgside an acceptable top gear for decent cruising speed. I have ordered the parts and will update here when complete and tested. First up is to ditch the 36T drive chainring and go with a 46T instead (yes there is frame clearance, just). This is a simple £13.72 upgrade from Ebay. Next is an 11-34 freewheel (Megarange) similar to John's cassette. If you can not go above 46T chainring (which you can't) on a 20" folder then you NEED an 11T sprocket, anything else is a pointless upgrade. Such freewheels are very rare and no longer made by Shimano because of the propensity to use a modern cassette. Of course, as John describes, a cassette needs a new hub and wheel re-build so a suitable freewheel is preferable if one wants a simpler solution. They can be found if you hunt around. Better still DNP make one especially for E-bikes with extra heavy duty freewheel components to handle the incredible torque generated by an electric motor. This is ideal for tandems that also generate double the torque of a normal bike. Said freewheel retails for £40 but is currently available on Amazon under DNP's new brand name of Drift Maniac for just £25.72 with free delivery. This is a bargain (e-bikes use standard freewheel hubs of course). Current link here:
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07XZ64MJ8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    This combination of 11-34 freewheel and 46T chain ring maintains the very low gear for steep hills of just 27.06" whilst giving a decent top end cruising gear of 83.64". This range is ample for a 20" wheeled bike that has to manage on what is effectively only 6 speeds with an extreme 'granny gear' for when needed.

    As for chains you should change this too. If you increase anything you should increase the chain length to match. The existing chain may work but only by over tensioning the rear gear pullies which in turn causes the chain to jump when on the biggest sprockets. The existing chain is 107 links and seems correctly sized so my upgrade to 34 tooth freewheel and 46 tooth chainring requires a new chain length of 115 links so a standard 116 link chain is an ideal option.

    Hope this is of use to other Ecosmo buyers. The result is a good all-round compromise at a bargain price that means I have a tandem that folds in seconds and fits, would you believe, into the boot of an Astra hatchback with all seats raised!

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    1. My experience with the Ecosmo Tandem, even with a 42T chainring upgrade, is exactly as you describe, ie "top speed" is about 10-11mph, at which point legs are spinning at (my) top speed. I have been searching for 11-34 freewheel since buying our tandem, in May 2020, so, thank you very much for the link. Credit Card and Freewheel remover to the ready!

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    2. Hi, Shrimpy, could you tell me the type of Freewheel removal tool required, please. ;)

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    3. Hi Ken,

      Still waiting for mine but looking at the photo I am 99.9% certain it takes a standard Shimano splined freewheel remover. It is the best system by far so all good makes tend to copy it these days.

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    4. OK Ken, update time. The DNP Epoch (Drift Maniac) 11-34 freewheel arrived yesterday so it is fitted. I was correct in assuming it is a standard 12 spline Shimano fitting but here is the thing. A cheap bog standard Shimano freewheel remover will probably not fit it on account of the splines being recessed meaning inadequate spline engagement. DNP make their own but the zinc plating means that it doesn't fit without filing the plating off (crazy I know but info on youtube proves it). However the Park Tool shimano freewheel remoner (Parktool FR 1.3) is a perfect fit. It is longer and has a wide opening for thick axles found on some e-bikes etc. It's also the best quality you can buy with a lifetime warranty. However, remember you DO NOT need a freewheel tool to fit a new freewheel. You need no tools at all. It can be tightened with a chain spanner but you can just sit on the bike, apply the brakes, and push down on the pedal. This will tighten the new freewheel. What you do need is a freewheel tool to remove the existing one and any old cheap Shimano compatible freewheel remover will get off the 14-28 Shimano freewheel supplied by Ecosmo. You may need a long bar on the spanner because two tandemists can really really tighten a freewheel on! If you want to remove the DNP in the future, Parktool FR 1.3 is the way to go for sure.

      Hope that helps.

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    5. Thank you very much Shrimpy. Now waiting for Parktool FR1.3 to arrive, should be today (Friday) or tomorrow, then, I can get on with swopping over the freewheels. I will report back when the deed is done and test ride completed.

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    6. Hi Shrimpy. An update. Parktool FR1.3 arrived late morning, thank you to Ebay/Royal Mail. Original Freewheel removed (the Park-tool fitted over the axle and lock nuts, no need to remove). New Drift Maniac 11-34 fitted, no problem. At this point, I did notice that the lock nuts / bearing cones appeared to be over-tight, and, rear wheel did not spin easily, so, I packed with more grease, and, slightly eased off the bearing cone tightness. Gear change has improved, without further adjustment. It is too windy to attempt a "real" test ride (yes, I am a wimp), but, a quick spin around the block is impressive, much improved gearing. This is with a 42T chainring, so, slightly lower gearing than your 46T. Finally, I note from your other post, you are in Northumberland, I am just South of you in Tyne-Wear. So, keep your eyes open for a white Ecosmo Tandem with two 73 year olds riding it!

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    7. Great news Ken. Indeed my wheels were overtight from the factory on the bearing cones and needed adjustment for smooth running. I would reccomend other Ecosmo buyers to do the same to reduce the chance of premature bearing failure (especially on the rear of a tandem). Product of cheap machine assembly I suppose. You're in a hilly place yourself so I'm sure you'll be fine with the 42T chainring unless you are desperate for fast flat cruising speeds. You are lucky that the 11-34 shifts accurately straight after fitting. That 24 to 34 change onto the 'granny gear' is a huge leap which the standard Shimano rear mech accomplishes with relish. However, I did have to tune my gear cable to within an inch of its life to get the shifts spot on and stable with the power of two pedalling. I'll no doubt have to do it a few more times given that it is new and the rear cable on a tandem is so looooong that they continue to stretch in use for quite a while.

      Interesting you're up in the north east as well. Mine is white too. You'll find me mostly around the northern half of Northumberland. Heaven on earth!

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  23. Hello (unknown), that is a great bit of research and deduction on your part. ... Extremely useful info. I gave up finding a freewheel (that would go straight on), well done for tracking one down. IF anyone ends up going to a cassette hub, I suggest doing what I should have done (but didnt think of at the time) and fit a hub with a disc brake. That said, you might need expert help fixing the caliper of properly.

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    1. Good point John about a disc hub. Of course any new Ecosmo buyers have this already, another reason why being able to find the 11-34 freewheel is a bonus. I have blown out a tandem tyre decades ago when cantilever brakes were all that was available. I've had rims so hot you couldn't touch them. And they were 700c rims. There is not enough surface area on 20" rims to brake a heavily loaded tandem in serious downhill decents with rim braking alone. Take care tandemists!

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  24. Not related to the gearing, Someone I know has an Ecosmo tandem, and he said the steering is 'weird'. I was wondering.... I find it quite good, as does Shrimpy it seems. I wonder if people who have not clocked up lots of hours cycling in their lives, would find the small wheel versions less easy. I don't know what others feel. No actual reason why small wheels should be less stable (contrary to what some school science teachers might have told us). In Ghent, many tandems from hire shops were 20" wheel, so small wheel fairly popular.

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    1. I ride a "normal" hybrid bike (Giant Escape 1) with 700c wheels, an unbranded (Dahon style) folder, with 20" wheels, and, the Ecosmo tandem, with 20" wheels. I find, if I have been riding the Giant, consistently, without riding one of the 20" wheel option, the first five minutes or so, on the 20" wheels, seems "odd", skittish, is how I would describe it. I have no real idea why this is so, except that, we "get used to things". The only explanation I can really come up with is the long distance from the front wheel to the handlebar, and, my view of that, in comparison to the "normal" bicycle. I find that, give it five minutes, and, my (tiny) brain has adjusted, and, I feel perfectly comfortable riding either of the 20" wheel bicycles. Not sure if that helps, or, muddies the waters ?

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    2. Couldn't agree with you more John, the steering is 'typical' tandem. Anyone not used to tandems would think the steering is weird simply because ALL tandems have 'weird' steering compared to a short wheelbase solo bike. The Ecosmo is no different. My ultra-long wheelbase Cannondale tandem is even weirder. Differences between tandems (their individual idiosyncracies so to speak) are not dictated by wheel size as much as wheelbase, front fork angle (in particular) and other such geometries within the design. Small wheel bikes in general are underated, unless it has a Moulton badge that is. The only real negative is that the road bumps and potholes are effectively bigger and more problematic the smaller the wheels are. This is a particular problem for the stoker who gets all the shock of a tandem through their rear end! What I do (on all tandems) is shout a warning (BUMP!) whenever I see a hole that I can not avoid, thus giving my wife time to disengage herself from the saddle.

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    3. Yes, my stoker (wife), complains about the bumps, particularly, if/when, I forget to shout BUMP!

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  25. A totally unrelated comment. We bought our Ecosmo Tandem in May, to give us something to amuse ourselves with, during lockdown. In practice, I think it has brightened the day of many people. Every time we go out on it, we are greeted with smiles, and waves. We have even been stopped (several times) and asked if passers-by can take a photograph of us! Have not been asked for my autograph yet, but, there is time yet ;)

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  26. Update regarding my gearing change suggestions:

    I concluded that a 46T final drive chainring was the best option for my new 11-32 freewheel. The heat treated alloy one I ordered is 'out of stock' so I have been hunting around for the best option. I like to choose strong hard final drive rings for tandems because of the forces transmitted by two riders. Aluminiun, even heat treated, can wear extremely quickly. Anyway I have located another part, once again specifically developed for e-bikes just like the freewheel. E-bikes can generate torque that can destroy flimsey gear systems so anything e-bike specific should be thought of simply as heavy duty (in other words, ideal for tandem use). The chainring in question is made by FSA (quality manufacturer) specifically for Bosch system e-bikes. It has the correct 104mm BCD and is plain and simple with no fancy mouldings for 'easy shifting' which is just what we need on account of there being no shifting involved. Better still it is plain old steel and heat treated so should last for about a million miles in 46T. Link here to stock at Chain Reaction Cycles:

    https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/fsa-bosch-ebike-chainring/rp-prod183588

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    1. That is a great piece of research work Shrimpy. It's so important to avoid bits that wear out
      We know that better quality parts can last several times longer, and save a lot of time and money. Its just knowing what to get.. I just remembered that our Ecosmo rear chain wore out, and I wasnt expecting that. I know we have a tiny 11-tooth gear, but we never transfer many Watts when in top gear. E bike cogs sound great

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    2. Indeed John, another good reason the change the final drive chain if increasing total number of teeth in the system aprt from the obvious. The Ecosmo supplied cheap chain should last fine as the timing chain but putting the power of two tandemists through an 11 tooth sprocket is a different matter. I got a simple KMC Z51 chain for £6, got to be money well spent. KMC are at least as good as Shimano equivalents.

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    3. I know very little about chain types. I don't recall having to be so mindful of chain wear in the past, but I can see that I need to start to keep an eye on chains and sprockets more

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  27. Found this interesting blog 18 months ago via Google and thought it very informative, thanks John, and the idea of a folding tandem ideal for us as we are only leisure cyclists and liked the idea of transporting the tandem to different locations for cycle rides.
    My reasoning for purchasing the Ecosmo was everything bolted to the frame can be upgraded as needed and the frame was worth the purchase price £349 at time of purchase 12 months ago.
    First ride confirmed the gearing was way too low so a new 46T 104pcd chain ring was purchased which improved things. The tyres were swapped for Continental Touring tyres and two Zoom suspension posts smoothed out the bumps from the 20" wheels as we were both used to 27" wheels previously. The freewheeling cranks were a bonus and we fitted quick release pedals as it aided loading the tandem into and out of our car.
    Enjoyed the summer of cycling and the attention the Tandem made.
    This Spring made us use the Tandem more than ever and enjoyed travelling to new locations and a couple of hours cycling. Noticed the gearing still needed tweaking as we were in top gear and wanted more. Also the derailleur chain was showing signs of wear.
    Decided to replace both chains to match and didn't like the idea of chain quick links but found via internet a cycle shop with KMC chain on a roll cut to order!
    Looked at many freewheels and cycling forums to find a 7 speed freewheel with a higher 7th gear than 14. Stumbled upon a Drift maniac 34 to 11 for £25.
    Now the gearing is just right for us. We still avoid big hills but are considering an electric conversion kit to boost our climbing ability.
    All in all the Tandem has been great and unbelievable value for money especially compared to the KHS sausage dog, which has the same frame, and sells for £1800.

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    1. How interesting is that? You've ended up with the exact same setup that I calculated as the perfect compromise, i.e. heavy duty Drift Maniac (DNP) 11-34 freewheel and 46T chainring! And you've proved that it works. Brilliant.

      As an update to my own modifications my FSA 46T chainring arrived yesterday so I have completed the same gearing re-build and tested it out. All is good and as expected. I can climb hills just as before with only a tiny increase in the lowest gear (25.71" to 27.06") but the top gearing increase of 51.43" to 83.64" is transformational. I have gone from spinning too fast and having to coast at about 9.5mph to being comfortable at 15mph and pedalling at 18 to 19mph is possible for short stretches at a high cadence. A proper bike now.

      I would say that an even bigger 48T chainring would clear the frame. Even 50 may do but I reckon anything above 48 would get too close the the timing chain tensioning pulley for comfort. I lived in Norfolk for 5 years and if I still did I would consider the 48T instead of the 46 but here in Northumberland the 46 and 11-34 is the perfect compromise (turn left out of my house and the raod is a Strava segment called the East Kyloe Killer, so that low gear is needed).

      I too have changed the seatposts to micro-adjustable alloy ones (can't stand those old fashioned steel saddle clamps) and I have added bottle cages and folding pedals. All in all with a bit of careful shopping around I have upped the purchase price from £409 to nearer £500 which is a bargain for what it now is. This is the current version with the disc brakes and the folding rear handlebar stem. Still less than a third the price of a KHS Sausage Dog which is admittedly a better bike but not that much better.

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    2. I hadn't checked the blogspot for a while and was pleasantly surprised to see Shrimpy had come to the same conclusion as I had about the gearing. So I was heading in the right direction.

      The ratios are just right for us as we can start off in second and the speed builds up with fewer gear changes. The Cateye display is between 12 and 15 mph with a comfortable pedal rate.

      The suspension seat posts were a must as we are often off road and gravel cycle paths are not smooth!

      The 46T chainring is a DBSMAIL alloy one so see how that goes regarding wear. I did adjust the spacer on the chainring to make sure it was perfectly inline with the 4th gear on the freewheel to lessen chain deflection in 1st and 7th gears.

      I have ordered a Swytch electric conversion kit which is bobbing about on a container ship at the moment so looking forward to fitting that when it arrives.

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  28. Gearing upgrades now complete, tuned and thoroughly tested. So I will summarise:

    DNP Epoch (Drift Maniac) 11-34 freewheel
    46Tooth chainring (FSA Bosch e-bike ring)
    Existing Shimano rear mech retained
    New chain with 114 links to replace supplied 108 link chain

    The bike performs perfectly with this setup. Hill climbing in the 27" lowest gear is 'steep hill capable' at a steady cadence giving around 4 to 5mph average speed. Flatter terrain can be cruised in 5th or 6th gear at 11 to 14mph. Top gear (7th) can be pedalled at a cadence of around 60 at 14mph and a more common cadence of 80 nearer to 17mph. Top gear is routinely exceeding 15mph whenever it can be used, quite an improvement on the factory setup of just over 9mph.. The existing Shimano Tourney rear mech handles the ratios perfectly with sharp instant changes even onto the low gear megarange sprocket. All clearances are ample.

    These gearing changes alone cost approx. £52 but are worth every penny turning the factory supplied bike from one barely usable into a well setup all round leisure tandem. I reckon the price to pay for the convenience of foldability in a very cheap package is less than 10% (that is to say, for the given effort I would expect to only go less than 10% faster and further on my state of the art full-sized Cannondale tandem). Small price to pay for all that fold up convenience.

    Hope that help other Ecosmo byers or would-be buyers.

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    1. Thank you for this information. We bought one in August inspired by Johns original post. It has been fun and we dont have to rely on the tube . But the gears arent great its fine for going up hill but we werent getting enough speed on the flat, this upgrade seems like it would do the trick.

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    2. You won't regret it Dubsy. Just remember you may need to fine tune that rear mech but that is a given with a tandem because the cable is so long and liable to stretching.

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  29. This blog post is rapidly turning into the Ecosmo Users Group! ;) Perhaps, Ecosmo should sponsor it?

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    1. Yes, there is some really useful info on here now, especially the advice on gearing. I wonder what cycling/tandem groups could be pointed to it?

      On the topic of cogs, We went for a little ride the other day. The rear cogs are starting to look worn (cassette in my case). We don't do many miles! Maybe we are sending more power than I thought to the rear chain!!. I think I will have to look for e-bike quality replacement for some winter maintenance

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    2. Ken and John. It seems like a great info source for Ecosmo buyers and potential buyers for sure. And I think they'll have no trouble finding it. Googling "Ecosmo folding tandem" brings up the site. John's brilliant write up was the first thing I read about them when I did some detective work so no doubt others do the same. I often think it is hard to realise just how helpful the net can be for this sort of thing. With only a few responding it is easy to think only a few have benefitted from the info and opinion others post but in reality for every posted reply there is probably many many readers, a large proportion of which will have gained useful information. All it takes is a good review like Johns to get the readers to the site in the first place.

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  30. Yes - this is a fantastic resource. I’m not yet an owner of one of these bikes but my finger is twitching over the ‘buy’ button and it’s marvellous to have this sort of detailed, practical information to hand. I had the opposite gearing experience with a couple of Dutch bikes I bought. They had chainrings with way too many teeth. Fitting smaller ones transformed their riding performance.

    I look forward to hearing how the electric Swytch conversion goes ...

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  31. Excellent blog, changed my gearing. So much better now.

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  32. I recently purchased a new Ecosmo Tandem. I posted a message to Bruno as we are also interested in fitting a Front Electric Wheel. But when I hit "Publish" the message disappeared! We are new to Tandeming and live in a village on 3/4 of the way up Caradon Hill in Cornwall (685ft ASL!). I fear if we go down the hill, It'll be a long slow walk back home! There are lots of Front Wheel Kits and conversions about and I just wondered which one you got and how it's working out Bruno.

    Steve

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    1. Get a Swytch kit. £499 pre-order with six month max wait. Can't be beaten. Lightest on the market just for that extra bit of oomph when needed.

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    2. Thanks for the advise Shrimpy. I've read almost everything on their website. I'll follow it up shortly after I've finished some rear-end mods.

      Thanks again

      Steve

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    3. I've ordered one myself but delivery is expected to be about 5 months. They are a good compromise for someone who just wants a bit of assistance on the uphills rather than a full blown electric bike where the motor does most of the work. They add less than 3 Kg to the bike so it is perfectly ride-able with the assistance off or battery depleted. I'll publish my experience here later in the year. Other cheap kits are available but do they have the back up of Swytch I wonder?

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    4. I look forward to hearing about it Shrimpy

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  33. Having finally acquired our Ecosmo tandem and made the necessary gearing adjustments I was thinking of getting the Easi Fit electric bike kit to make difficult journeys a little easier. Unfortunately, the bottle cage battery is a little too large to fit on the frame. Also, the seller thought it wouldn’t be powerful enough for a tandem. So I abandoned the idea. It has similar specifications to the Swytch kit so I’ll be interested to see how that works out in practice.

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    1. I discounted that kit because the wheel weighs between 4 and 5 Kg whereas the Swytch, the lightest available, weighs only 1.5 Kg.
      I'm not looking for the full-on electric bike experience where the motor can do the lion's share of the work or, indeed, all the work. I'm only after a lightweight upgrade that gives me the option to occasionally take the sting out of the steeper hills so we can enjoy our tandem for longer over greater distances without quite so much sweat. Consequently I expect the solo bike Swytch kit should be ample while not creating a serious weight issue.

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    2. I saw that weight difference, yes, but I assumed Swytch were talking about 1.5kg being the additional weight of the motor whereas Easi Fit meant 4.5 kg was the weight of the wheel and motor combined? Either way, they both seem to have pretty good reviews and certainly look simple to fit.

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    3. Yes you are correct, that's the extra weight of a Swytch wheel over and average standard wheel with strong rim and plain gauge spokes. In fact I now have my Swytch kit for the Ecosmo and the exact weight increase for the front wheel is just 1.62 Kg. Add to that the dragless motor and the bike is essentially no different without battery fitted as it was before. I'll do a full 'Swytch kit for the Ecosmo' write up.

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  34. Well, I ended up purchasing an Electric Wheel from China. Next to no connecting instructions but inside the box it was all connected apart from a 36V Battery. I wanted a 20 Amp LiPo, so I purchased it elseware. Powerful enough for a Tandem? Definitely YES. On the flat, it manages an easy 15 MPH (Actually 17). Up a steep Cornish hill with little human input 12 MPH and vertually on it's own 10MPH.

    Once I leave the village (St. Cleer), in most directions it's downhill from 685ft/asl. I'm now happy we can get back without walking! Further up Caradon Hill, the top is 1,085ft/asl . . . some 400ft climb in no more than a few miles. I'll have a go tomorrow. Glad the ECOSMO has Disc Brakes for the retun trip!

    Incidentally, the gear train on my bike has yet to be modifed. With the existing setup, I struggle to reach and maintain 10 MPH . . . frequently checking that I really am in top gear!

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  35. Arrrh . . . I forgot to ask about the longer chain Shrimpy. Is this what I need for the 11-34 + 64 T

    KMC 1/2" x 3/32" Cycle Bike Chain Multi Gear 114 Links

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=160289010717&_sacat=0

    Many thanks

    Steve

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    1. Hi Steve,

      Yes I think that will be the one. Assuming you meant 46T chainring not 64 that is! :)

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    2. Blast, I thought you had found someone who made a 64 tooth chain ring ! As I've fitted a Nuvici infinitely variable hub gears to mine and am finding it difficult to get a small enough front chain ring.

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  36. Thanks Shrimpy. Yes back to front as usual!

    Steve

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  37. I just had a look at our chains, and given that we don't do many miles, and also don't produce a high torque, I was surprised how much chain and cog wear we have. I assume that the front chain has an easy life - big rings so less angular movement of the only one persons thrust. I ordered a std chain for that. I was thinking an e bike chain for back, though its not obvious what to buy. However, its no good putting new chain on worn sprockets. I have a 11 to 32T shimano cassette. Easiest thing is to simply replace with the same thing from a reputable supplier (to avoid a cheap copy)
    Any thoughts or suggestions?

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    1. Got to be a KMC or Shimano everytime I reckon John. Quality is assured and easily up to tandem demands. I would never put an unbranded chain on a decent bike and definitely not the back of a tandem. I've had a standard Shimano chain on a Cannondale tandem for 30+ years and it still never skips a beat. It wasn't anything fancy like a Dura Ace.

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    2. Many thanks Shrimpy. From memory of the past, sprockets lasted for ever and chains lasted a very long time. People seem to accept that things need replacing these days. Seems to be the way of the world!

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  38. I decided to buy a replacement cassette because it looks a bit worn to my eyes. However. the new one is no better. Not a problem... maybe we need to get riding and clock up a lot more miles before I fit the new one!. Anyhow, I realise now that I don't know how to 'gauge' wear on a bike sprocket. Seems easier to assess for normal sprockets.

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    1. Indeed John a new sprocket does appear pre-worn when looking at the tooth profile. This is due to more complex computer aided design that has come up with the best profile to make for quick and precise shifting between gears. I have 15,000+ miles on a 27 year old Cannondale tandem with original Shimano cassette and original Shimano chain still working perfectly and showing very little sprocket wear despite the load of two cyclists.

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  39. Great blog John, I find myself back in this place for all Ecosmo folding tandem related topics. We are loving our tandem and have been using it much more since the pandemic, the other day I checked the tyres and they are showing considerable signs of wear, mine one came with 1.75" Kenda Kommuter, a discontinued product. Was considering swapping them with a pair of Schwalbe Marathons, but a quick lookup found those are 80kg max load per wheel. The tandem itself weight 23kg plus the weight of two adults and bags is cutting very close to the 160kg limit. The big apples would be slightly better with 85kg max load per wheel, but not sure if there will be enough clearance as the narrowest one comes in 2", might need to take the fenders off to fit. I also found some ebike specific tyres but most specs make reference to max speed not load, what do other EFT owners use for replacement tyres and how do they hold up?

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    1. Schwalbe Pick Up.
      20 x 2.15.
      115kg each.

      The 2.35's are twoo big but the 2.15 are perfect. Expensive cargo bike tyres but worth every penny. £70 a pair with free del from bikeparts. Out of stock everywhere else.

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    2. Schwalbe Pick Up.
      20 x 2.15.
      115kg each.

      The 2.35's are twoo big but the 2.15 are perfect. Expensive cargo bike tyres but worth every penny. £70 a pair with free del from bikeparts. Out of stock everywhere else.

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    3. Double carcass in the pick-up certainly sounds reassuring. Bikeparts have just ran out, I managed to snap up the last two from Amazon. Thanks for the recommendation Shrimpy.

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    4. You'll not regret it. They are amazing. Did 28 miles yesterday off road (Kielder lakeside path) and they were so comfortable it was like riding a sofa. Blow them up to the maximum 65psi (may need a track pump) for tandem use.
      If anyone else is reading this, remember you need the 2.15 and not the 2.35 to fit the Ecosmo!

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    5. One more thing. I found the larger tyre diameter meant the rear wheel was no loonger lifted clear of the ground by the double leg kickstand. A pair of rubber walking stick feet pushed over the existing plastic caps on the kickstand restored stability by effectively incresing the kickstand length. Very cheap on ebay.

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  40. Great to see all these interesting posts with such helpful tips. It's all really useful.
    Not that we have needed much maintenance.....we have not been wearing anything out, in-part due to missing our trips to France etc
    Off to Cromer area very shortly for some gentle hill-free meandering, so that won't wear anything out either!

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  41. Shrimpy - did you get/fit your Swytch kit?

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    1. Yes Dod I did. I've been evaluating the setup on the Ecosmo for several weeks now and have to say it was a good decision. I'll do a proper in depth write up in the next few days. Watch this space!

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  42. Thanks. I’ll look forward to hearing more!

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    1. I've replied four times now but can't get it to publish. Does anyone know if there is a maximum reply size or something like that?

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  43. I don't know about that. Todays comment from you came through OK. I wonder if I can put on an any-size comment? you could try sending something/it to johncantor at heatpumps.co.uk

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    1. Right I’ll try it in two pages. Part one:

      So to the Swytch kit. This is not the first kit I've fitted. Previously I put one on my wife's touring bike and I have to say I was mightily impressed. The Swytch is the lightest e-bike conversion you can get. Obviously the motor and battery is heavy and the wheel needs heavy gauge un-butted spokes to handle the torque but all in all the complete kit with battery fitted will add less than 4 kg to the bike. In fact the Ecosmo has a standard 100 mm front fork spacing (as opposed to the smaller 80 mm found in Brompton and most Dahon/Tern folding bikes) so this means you can use the universal Swytch kit which is cheaper than the Brompton specific or other folder kit. The universal kit with Eco size battery is £499 on the maximum 12 week wait (both mine came sooner) with a £30 delivery charge on top. Bargain for what you get. The kit can be ordered with a pro size battery which has about 40% more capacity and can deliver power at a 20% higher maximum rate but that will cost about £125 more than the Eco battery. A second Eco battery to double range was £250 I think.

      Anyway, the kit comes with a 20" wheel built around the hub. The hub for standard 100 mm forks has a 'one-size-fits-all' 36 spoke holes which means you get the strongest imaginable wheel when it is built into a tiny 20" rim. The spokes are very thick to handle the torque and the whole wheel is well up to tandem strength requirements. The double walled rim is strong and very similar in profile to the standard issue Ecosmo part that it is replacing so it all looks good.

      The hub motor is dragless as it does not recharge when freewheeling. I'll not go into the numbers for efficiencies of regenerative breaking but suffice to say it is essentially pointless. If an e-bike re-charges itself then there is always drag so all in all it is a no net gain setup when you look at the losses involved in re-charging. The Swytch can't recharge so is dragless and this means that without battery fitted you can leave the motor wheel on and ride it as the normal bike. On mine the motor wheel was only 1.6 kg heavier than the original so, with all the battery holder and cabling it is still less than 2 kg added when not used as an e-bike and the battery is not fitted (call it less than 1 kg each)!

      Power assistance arrives as soon as the pedal is turned so the optional throttle (illegal on road anyway) is not needed. Nor are the optional brake sensors because the power stops instantly when peddling stops. Fitting the kit is easy. The Ecosmo presents only one issue and that is the distance between the handlebars and the hub motor which is very long because the wheel is small and the bars can be set very high. The motor cable is at it maximum length on mine. I find that where I have the bars the length is perfect. The only trouble is if you want to remove the bars when folding to reduce the width of the folded bike (I do this and put the bar stem into the bottom of the folding stem tube). With the cable tight you can not do this but do not despair, if you fold the bars down first it is still possible to release the stem clamp and pull the bars out. The alternative, if you want to set the bars at an extreme height, is to get a motor extension cable from Swytch but this is 50 cm long so there would be quite a bit of spare cable to accommodate. Oh and one more thing. The motor axle is squared off so it fits tight in the dropout (essential to stop it turning). It is deliberately a tight fit. It is normal to have to do a bit of filing to get it to fit and the Ecosmo was no different. At first I removed the paint from the inside of the dropout flange but a little bit of work with a metal file was also needed. Only took 10 or 15 minutes to get a perfect fit.

      Delete
    2. Part two:

      So to range and power. There is 5 power settings representing 60, 70 80 90 and 100% power. The lower the setting the greater the range. My wife leaves her solo bike in setting one and can do 25 miles easily in our very hilly terrain, even with occasional increases in power on the worst climbs (Eco small battery). I can no longer keep up with her on my feather-light road bike, not a chance. I assumed the Ecosmo, weighing twice as much and with two people onboard, would halve the range but no, far from it. The motor does what it can on hills and if you stress it with extra weight you just get less assistance and have to work a bit harder. The resultant drop in range I estimate to be nearer 20% only. In fact, as a tandem is so ridiculously efficient on the flat and downhill we just turn it off completely and switch it back on when the gradient changes. This way we too get over 20 miles from the Eco battery no problem. But best of all, if the battery were to go flat it is just like riding the regular bike only with about four full water bottles of extra weight. Win win.

      So what battery to buy? If I had only one kit I may, for the tandem, choose either the extra sized Pro battery at £125 extra or even buy a second battery at twice that. A greater number of smaller batteries gives more options though. The smaller Eco battery is only 2 Kg so that is all you need to carry for most shorter trips. If you need more power and take a second battery you do not need to put it on the handlebars where it affects the handling (I keep mine at the very bottom of the small pannier on the back for great weight distribution and a low centre of gravity). But here is a trick. Why not buy two Swytch kits if you want to electrify another bike? If you order two at once you save £50 so the second kit with Eco battery is only £450 plus £30 postage (each is posted separately when they are made so each has a postage charge). When you consider a second Pro battery is £299 this means you are getting a whole Swytch kit for essentially just about £250 with the ability to take one or both batteries on either of the two bikes. The battery is programmed with the wheel size (for obvious reasons) but it is about three or four button presses on the control panel to change between two different wheel sizes if you take a battery from a bike with a different size wheel. Simples!

      Delete
    3. Part 3:

      To summarise. The kit provides ample power to make hills enjoyable rather than stupidly easy. I would not want more power, if I did I might as well get a Sinclair C5! Using it around Kielder Water lakeside path (VERY undulating with steep grades) I tried it on level three the whole way round in 27 degrees Celsius and never got into an uncomfortable sweat. The battery faded around 20+ miles so I got out the spare and flew the rest of the way as the pub was open and a pint or two had our names on them. The bike rides as good in non assisted mode as it did before conversion. The extra weight spread over a tandem is all but irrelevant. One downside, you can't use a handlebar bag in elec or non-elec mode because of the permanently fitted battery holder.

      In fact, we are so impressed that we have just ordered kit number three for my full size tandem. I'll be keeping a tyre on the old front wheel when it comes so I can flip between the normal bike or the Swytch version (5 minute job) but I know for a fact I'll almost certainly not use the old wheel again. I've gone for the Eco battery again so will have three and I'm confident that at least 60 enjoyable assisted miles will be available if I take the two spare batteries from my existing kits. I'll be putting the two spares at the bottom of the bags on the front low rider panniers so the weight will be below the wheel hub for excellent handling. I only wish I'd bought all three at once because that would be another £50 saved!

      By the way, Swytch themselves are happy to know the kit is on a tandem, they have no issues with this type of use and it does not affect warranty. Talking of warranty, after fitting you need to fill in a form on-line and upload photos and video of completed tasks. Best to do this on a smartphone or tablet with built in camera and not the PC. Five minute job when done like this. Ordering is a question of registering for an invite to order. When the time comes you get an invite for a set time and you just login and order a standard Eco kit. A few days later you get a link by email to amend you order and choose extras, specify wheel size etc. If you want an extra kit you can do this at that time (you just order one at pre-order to start). Sometime between 8 and 12 weeks later it will arrive. It's strange but it's like crowd funding. They get the cash up front then order the kits. No stock is held (well a few units at a much higher price)! The setup works, just pay by credit card so you are covered should the company fold before your kit(s) arrive.

      Unlike my wife, I was not a fan of e-bikes but the Swytch kit has opened my eyes. It's the perfect compromise between giving the assistance you want while keeping the integrity of the bike as a proper bike.

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    4. Yes, extremely informative and interesting. Maybe that will be the way to go, but not yet a while. Many thanks Shrimpy

      Delete
  44. Great write up! Many thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  45. John,

    I noticed you have a small front rack on your bike. How is it fitted? The photo is a bit blurred but it looks as though you might be using the V brake attachment points? I wanted to put a front rack on mine but it’s the later, disc brake version and doesn’t have any obvious places.

    I do have a basket on the handlebars but I find any real weight in it interferes with the steering. I’m hoping that putting the weight lower down might be better.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. yes its a simple aluminium one that you will see on Ebay. it bolts onto the brake fixings. Mmmm not sure how you would manage with nowhere to bolt to.
      Ah... I see this one has brackets.. I hope they are sturdy enough. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353653853177?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item5257698bf9:g:jagAAOSwtZxhMDkG&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSd0ReTLyM7cxPnI6zs468EJiO%252Bxb2StBFUIB8kC7alJ6rWrp7uFhJxZH4TdSezqIppcrUhXEn0s1p7IatHKxQXl%252FMDW7wCoFZgzeAPIXxZHpd7YSfspNM1jIlL%252F2C9LOLPQzr8qZu1dJtgscStVCTBtCrftQg2aKQOPLWGFikPu19iz6tu%252F5n9PLaklRlpkGufHM%252FQPLaxL%252FF60AE7lbEfEGvluBPgTTEwGrG0lFzIr7EvqxD8SK%252FFmB%252FZ6eQBAFzKDUSwbm%252BjOzp%252BGGzu%252FbioyXxQwp6DXbcfWEw6e5yJlciB6j90kU%252FEGW7weXZ6cMNsi5Eon%252FbAKuXjDhjKYWk8uXuIqmBAqVmguwXqiiy1S4eZWlPZFVzBVj9D0%252FCcL%252BBfFAjjb3kh1EBGvKuENIEtLAHcvL0voaRdrSLon1dKodH%252BpNXgVeqgWnccJufUlogjgf6WYBeGHpocJHY6t18nsgcS%252B7MMKBdWRtXBhaZ%252Fu7MMgcUr0KeEVx69kUghCCPenjOxXt2yKTBFXKjairZPIc1sFNhBG3ZpsoyTxNrNs492eAO1iW7vUUr9BR5dPFKg9NnchyfbePAa90rP4XyVbfBNB63xfclxEC84g76LIavvqOfXS8rDsw8cNfPl6wfLgYqVaCECbQf%252FEImF46PaH%252BGXVRRTaREnwnsZKGQ1Kptx%252FrYkujED%252F8Gc%252BJUL%252BrdUN1jYh1aXBAd%252BY9aBkGysu0fVqOZNSodqeNRiPr8J6NE2vrQxqs1CaurVRaClJL1Vmpi0RR0DOK0urB231gIJ11OMFWOCI5K1LJniHuGvCNVyBiznCQTEMLPEfbGKXa7ijAvQ0rYdoOuc9datEnpVw%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBM3v3Iqulf

      Delete
    2. Yes - well found! That looks like it might be the answer.it’s not for anything bulky.

      Delete

  46. I recently electrified our tandem using the bottle battery Easifit bike kit. This has worked out very well. I decided on Easifit rather than Swytch because of the way the battery fits snugly onto the down tube (in place of a bottle) rather than hanging off the handlebars.

    There is no pedal sensor but a gyroscope in the battery itself senses when power is needed. This functions well enough, but what is surprising to me, and what I hadn’t anticipated, was how useful the separate thumb throttle is. I’m not entirely sure how legal this is as it works independently of the pedals but I find it amazingly helpful when starting off and when we require a sudden burst of power. Quite often, I have the assistance on zero and just use the throttle as and when needed.

    Given that the kit is designed for a regular bike the fact it works so well with the tandem is very pleasing, though I should emphasise it certainly doesn’t take away the need for pedalling! I tried it alone and it was surprisingly nippy whereas with two on board it is more sedate. It’s an expensive option, costing much the same as the bike itself, but it has definitely made our trips, especially when we run into wind or are simply tired, far more enjoyable.

    I suspect the kit and certainly any second battery can be sourced from AliExpress at a discount price though I wanted to buy with the certainty of being able to return it if it didn’t work out. The battery with holder fits into its space only by the tiniest margin!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes Dod the thumb throttle is not legal anymore for use on the highway. They used to be some years ago. However, I understand it is legal to fit one for use off-road. Therefore you are not breaking the law if you don't use it on the road (or don't admit to it). This is where the cheeky winking emoji goes.

      Delete
    2. Hello Shrimpy, I am replying to a random message of yours. I know you have been very active on this blog. I added some pictures to the end of the blog of our electrification, but I notice that nobody has viewed it since that. I'm wondering if I have broken it! Maybe adding pictures to an old blog is a security issue. I dont know. Just testing to see if you get post alerts

      Delete
  47. Great to hear about your experience Dod. We have actually just been to France...not on the train this time, but in an MPV along with 7-year-old grandson. We only did 41km over the week.
    Anyhow, I still occasionally ponder electric assist, BUT of the few electric bikes that I have read, they don't behave how I would want. They seem to waste power... Are they set to give a 'power kick' as an illusion of 'working well'. I would want a much 'softer' start, and maybe I would want something like the thumb control that you mention Dod. I am guessing that I would want a light battery, therefore a relatively small capacity one. I would therefore want to be very sparing, and only use the electric when we felt like the going was getting hard. I'm guessing also that I would want a good battery-level gauge so as to know if I need to conserve, of if I have plenty left before the next charge. I guess it's only a matter of time before we go electric... but I think it would be a small one.
    The size issue might have parallels with a topic I know a lot about... Heat Pumps. My experience is that a tiny heat pump set up well can give excellent results, so long as you are patient.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nice one John. The Switch kit has a very soft start, is the lightest available and the new mark three kit (just out) has three battery sizes about the size of a smartphone in various thicknesses. Again, smallest and lightest batteries available anywhere.

      Delete
    2. That's good to know Shrimpy. I am still pondering if we need to go electric, or simply keep within our cycling capability.

      Delete
  48. I have found all the posts extremely fascinating and helpful.

    I am totally blind and purchased a white Ecosmo tandem in January. I want to improve on it to make it a better ride for both me and my pilot. I made a list of things from the posts, but please do tell me if I have missed anything:

    DRIFT MANIAC 7 Speed Freewheel For E-Bike 11-28T/11-34T Screw On Freewheel
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07XZ64MJ8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Park Tool shimano freewheel remoner (Parktool FR 1.3):
    https://www.3peakscycles.com/accessories/tools/park-tool-fr-13-freewheel-remover__2179?currency=GBP&chosenAttribute=QKFR13&gclid=CjwKCAjw9qiTBhBbEiwAp-GE0R8WCRop5UrR57LuoSnwi0fEkUUGBqxF2a4g1G-l2xgNuQ3SNjbtMxoC7MoQAvD_BwE

    FSA Bosch eBike Chainring | Chain Reaction:
    https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/fsa-bosch-ebike-chainring/rp-prod183588

    KMC Z51 Chain:
    https://hopkinsoncycles.co.uk/product/kmc-z51-6-7-8-speed-bike-chain-bicycle-116-links-new-mtb-road-1-2-x-3-32/

    KMC 1/2" x 3/32" Cycle Bike Chain Multi Gear 114 Links With Connector Link MTB:
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160289010717?epid=13028170816&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item2551f8341d:g:kCIAAOSwPOhffa2l&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAAA4MSpgyZsGLYZP9aXz5Bn0v4xM6cK3qP5Av12iftCyNTADq8eZUheLXJFQcFzz%2BMH%2BERKgoqHBjJmna2vSYtaPvrSdHlOA2SjVw0TtsYf%2Fg0M6hPlVyowhrD%2FacHcvjFiINdjX4jEeyf099ngHKhKoEzFH%2BzN5bekrpdP15eFBP4qOv2Em6i1tqYVZKHXx%2BJR61G6M705dmZjpVIygcx3HErxBxYAj%2Fe9alr3J3HsAgdFgfMy80CT9kXgcNcixS%2FZarCBiT%2FFt1EsQBV2mO5Mdk0QOowI5vIz3Phyhqh3q2af%7Ctkp%3ABFBMtou7lo5g

    Micro Adjust Alloy Seat Post:
    https://www.balfesbikes.co.uk/components/saddles-seat-posts/micro-adjust-alloy-seat-post__293?currency=GBP&chosenAttribute=SPM264&gclid=CjwKCAjw9qiTBhBbEiwAp-GE0dhTNmWxqGtOliVeCbX3DgXkn_pRg6fEihPIcq7I6PtlACkE220alBoCreQQAvD_BwE

    Schwalbe Pick-Up 20 x 2.15" Tyres
    https://hollandbikeshop.com/en-gb/bicycle-tires-and-inner-tubes/schwalbe-bicycle-tires/schwalbe-20-inch-bicycle-tires/schwalbe-pick-up-20-x-2-15-addix-e-compound-black-694947/

    Walking Stick Feet:
    https://www.stickandcaneshop.co.uk/rubber-walking-stick-ferrules

    The only things I am missing are the following:
    folding pedals
    disc brakes
    folding rear handlebar stem

    I am going to ask a friend or bike mechanic to rebuild it for me, so I would appreciate as much information as possible.

    Thank you.

    MC

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm glad you have found it useful.... I certainly have. I hope others here, who know far more than i do, can verify that you are getting the best bits for your needs

      Delete
  49. I dont know much about most of the parts you listed, however, my seat post is 28.6mm. I think the one on your list is 26.4mm. I think its a great tip to use Ebike quality chains and sprockets, However, I would think that the front chain has a very easy 'ride' since it never goes around a tiny cog. My rear chain was badly worn , but the front one is the original, and seems fine. I guess this could lead on to jokes about who is pedalling..... lets not go there!!

    ReplyDelete
  50. Hi John,
    Great post and really helpful comments. I have just purchased one of these bikes for use with my daughter. She is just a little too short to reach the pedals at the lowest point. I know crank shorteners were mentioned above, but these are pricey. So I have got a shorter pair of replacement cranks. Only problem is, I can’t get the original cranks off (I have the tool, but it just won’t budge).
    Has anyone had their cranks off? Any advice would be much appreciated.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. In my day you're dad fitted wooden blocks on the pedals!

      Delete
  51. Welcome.... yes I have found the blog very useful myself. Yes, I have had my cranks off. Like all... they can be a little tricky. The only reason I took mine off was that older bikes can be impossible to remove, so I thought I would try, and grease them well when they went back. I guess it could be all down to the strength of the person tightening the bolts. I did mine tight... but not too tight.
    I know many removal tools are relatively cheap. Not sure if a bike shop would have a better quality tool, and/or more experience that us amateurs at such things
    Good luck

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi John,
      The bike shop did indeed get the cranks off, but found the right hand crank is fixed to the free wheel, so I had to think again.
      A call to the manufacturer got me a replacement stoker chain set (so I still have the original to put back on), and the local bike shop cut short the cranks and re-drilled holes for the pedals - two new holes on each side so they are at 110mm now. But with holes at 140mm to grow into. And the original at 170mm when needed. Shout out to Jon @BN3Bikes for a top job. Whole thing came in just over a hundred quid, so similar to the crank shorteners but a tidier solution.

      Delete
  52. Hi there. Hope this message finds you well. My wife and I got interested in this bike. She is a remarkable blind woman and misses cycling too much. We got the idea of buying a Tandem, but we don't have much experience in it. So I have a few questions if it doesn't bother you.

    - We both measure around 1,70 cm / 5.6 feet. Do you think we'll fit the bike? I'm an avid cyclist, and she also had her share of riding bikes.
    - After passed some time with it, is the bike expensive to maintain? We just arrive from Brazil and are in a pinch, so it would be good to have an estimate.
    - Do you think London Underground would accept it as a foldable bike?

    Thanks for your time, and wish you a great week.
    Best,
    Heitor and Marina.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hello Heitor and Marina. I am glad you have found the blog useful... I have!. I am tall-ish and Sabrina is 6'4" ish. You should fit fine. I don't think maintenance is much.. We don't do much to it, but we don't clock up a lot of miles. I think (as I say on the blog) that the standard gears are limited.. Ok for general pottering. Anyhow, I really don't know how the London underground would view it. Its bigger than a normal folding bike. I doubt if it would come within normal folding bike category. I know when we travelled, we took a bag (made from an old tent). We had it in case the French rules didn't allow a big folding bike, but might allow a big bag. We never found out, but did at one time put it on a coach in its bag. Not sure I have helped much. Maybe others have useful thoughts.

      Delete
  53. Michael Henderson24 January 2023 at 12:24

    Hello there! Thanks for all this juicy info on this bike, so much juicy info in-fact that it helped me bite the bullet and make the purchase myself! At the time of writing this message (24/01/2023) the bike came to £475, bought on one of the distributors' website "Panlova.com" in the Uk (free P&P next day delivery). It's black, disk brakes as standard, 8-speed "CS-M3008" cassette with 11t - 32t, front and middle sprocket of 36t (I think), twist knob and "C" clamp catches for the folding mechanism in the frame and handlebars, 20" x 1.95" tires (Hang Zhou Rubber Chao Yang (so super generic low quality tires with bizarre tread)) and a bell :P The handlebars for the stoker are attached to the seat post of the captain and are actually quite wide (a bit too wide for my liking) and a center-post, 2 legged stands (which is lush).

    I have huge plans to update the heck out of it to effectively make it a daily driver/commuter and adventure vehicle for myself soloing and with my 2 kids (I'll be getting a weehoo turbo trailer, so I can tow the youngest also). I'm not expecting to win any speed or performance competitions anytime soon but an honorable mention for heaviest weight pulled would be nice hah!

    ReplyDelete
  54. This is a really great resource. Thanks to all the contributors. My wife and I have this bike and was hoping someone might be able to help with something. The handlebar stem feels really flimsy and creaks under duress (i.e. when we're climbing). I've tried all sorts to prevent it, without success, and am keen to upgrade it to something more sturdy. Has anyone upgraded the handlebar stem on this bike? If so, which one did you buy? Many thanks in advance.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Interesting... That is one part of our one that I have not had concern about. Is it possible that it just needs tweaking a bit? or is it actually different to ours I wonder? They do change things from time to time. is it the very bottom hinge/catch where you think the problem is?

      Delete
    2. Is the creak coming from the bars to stem clamp or from the stem hinge clamp?I'm assuming it's not the rear bars. The handlebars themselves will not creak so the problem must be movement at one of the joints in the system.

      Delete
    3. I believe the issue is associated with the bars to stem clamp. I've tried using some old inner tube around the bars to try to shore it up, but no joy.

      Delete
    4. Our one is a simple clamp from vertical stem to horizontal bars. it looks very standard and very sturdy. I'm wondering why yours is not as good. Should be easy to replace

      Delete
  55. Hi. John, I have an Ecosmo Tandem for sale. Would it be acceptable to list it here?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, why not. Someone on here might be interested

      Delete
    2. Sounds like a bargain for someone.
      Just so you know, I have to 'publish' every comment. They don't go on automatically, So if anyone sends a comment about this tandem, with contact info, I WON'T publish it, but can act as go-between. e.g. instead of publishing, I will email you. Is that sensible?

      Delete
  56. Hi. I have an Ecosmo Folding Tandem for sale. It is the White model, with disk brakes. Although approximately. 3 years old (purchased during Covid pandemic, for amusement of myself and wife), it is in. as new condition. Reason for selling?, we are now 76 years old, and, have graduated to Electric Bikes, so, Tandem not being used. I am based in Tyne-Wear, near Newcastle / Sunderland. I paid approximately £400 for it, and, am asking £200. Buyer Collects. I could do photographs, but, cannot see how to post them on here.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Above Ecosmo Tandem now sold. Thank you John for allowing me to put it on here.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Hello. I wonder if anyone would be so kind as to help me with some knowledge.
    I’ve purchased a second hand Ecosmo ( to cycle with my daughter) . I’m trying to put a Drift Maniac 11-34 T freewheel on but I can’t get it to shift properly .
    At first the chain was not staying on the mega cog but now I’ve pulled more gear cable through the pinch bolt and (depending on my fine tuning at barrel adjuster) it either leaps up there in quite a delayed/alarming way and stays in gear ( fairly quietly)but the middle gears are extremely crunchy/ unstable OR I can get reasonably smooth higher and middle gears but no leap up to that mega cog.
    It’s the older type with 42T chainring but it is in quite new condition- I haven’t measured the chain but it looks so clean that I don’t think it can be too stretched.
    I didn’t actually test ride it before taking off the original freewheel because we live somewhere hilly and we wanted a struggle-free first ride! (Kids are easily put off by a bad first experience)( plus weather and illness meant more tinkering time than riding time)

    This is just with me turning the pedals by hand- I’ve not dared try it under load yet.

    Does anyone have any words of wisdom ? ( I’ve squirted lube down or on all the bits of gear mech/ cable that I can) Do you think I should install a longer chain? I know another commenter said 114 links but they had 48T up front whereas I have 42T front . The jockey wheel might look a bit weird but maybe they always do.

    Is a 34T megarange just too ambitious?
    I could go for an 11-32 but we have the higher geared 42T chainring so would appreciate that mega low back gear.
    In fact I would probably sacrifice the 11T if it meant the other gears worked- (I don’t like to go too fast round here anyway because of all the drivers and pedestrians who don’t look where they’re going!)
    Many Thanks



    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi,
      First up the 34 Megarange is perfect, no problem at all. A 32 would be hardly worth the change. The chances are that the chain is worn rather than stretched. Rear tandem chains take a huge load. It is nearly always necessary to change a chain if changing a freewheel/cassette because they wear together. Also your chain will now be too short for your bigger range thereby exacerbating any problems due to excess tension in the system when accessing the 34T sprocket. The 114 link chain for the 34T Megarange is what I calculated for use with a 46T sprocket up front. I really do recommend changing the 42 to a 46 as you will spin out at about 10 to 12 mph using the 42T but get to go 15 mph with the 46T. If you stick with the 42 you will need less of an increase in chain length (either way buy a 114 or longer chain because you can always add the links back in future if needed). Once you are happy with the freewheel, chainring and chain combination all should work well with the usual fine tuning. If not it could be simply a bent derailleur or similar but sort out the components first before going further.
      Hope that helps.
      Dave

      Delete
    2. Thanks so much Dave.
      It’s good to have that confirmed. I didn’t want to just keep buying things if it was a lost cause.

      I suspected the chain might be too short but as it seemed to fit within the criteria on the Park Tool video (angles at jockey wheels) I thought I was perhaps being fussy.

      Also, it’s the newest looking chain I’ve ever had (A lifetime of secondhand bikes!) but as you say chains and freewheels do like to age together so a brand new chain would address both issues.

      I’m not sure how to calculate the chain length. Maybe I’ll put it on as 114 links, ( with quick link) see how it performs/ fits then reduce the length link by link?

      I say this like I do it all the time but I’ve never even taken a chain off before!
      My knowledge (and tool selection) is gradually expanding as I go along.

      Thanks again to you and all the helpful folks on here.
      It restores my faith in the internet.

      Sophie

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    3. Hi Sophie,

      Your old freewheel was (I think) 28 maximum and new one is 34 so about 2 to 3 extra links over the existing chain would be about right (assuming it was fitted at the best length, which is not necessarily the case of course, and assuming you are not also increasing the front chain-ring). The 42 front you have will do (way better than the 38 they fit now) but you will only be rolling downhill when the high weight and lack of drag make tandems easy peddling. If the chain is too long the jockey wheels will end up too pulled up when on the 11 sprocket and the chain will rub on itself where it passes under the top wheel (easy to see/hear).

      Once you are happy with the new chain length all should be well but fine tuning of the derailleur will be required, it always is. If still struggling check the derailleur isn't bent as this is common on small wheel bikes with long reach jockey wheel arms that get near to the ground and kerbs etc. Look along the chain from the rear to see it all lines up well.

      Dave

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    4. Thanks! I’ll let you know how I get on.

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  59. It took us a while to decide, but we have gone electric! I have written a paragraph at the end of the blog, and added 3 photos. Down side, its a bit heavier and we have gained a slight whine noise. However, we can now go further & faster up hill.

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    1. Good luck with your new direction, I had a Ammaco steel tandem, then an all alloy one, but now have a holiday flat and can't get it up the stairs!! So due to the info from all you guys in here I'm buying an Ecosmo for the flat!!! Thanks everyone!

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    2. Good luck with your new direction, I had a Ammaco steel tandem, then an all alloy one, but now have a holiday flat and can't get it up the stairs!! So due to the info from all you guys in here I'm buying an Ecosmo for the flat!!! Thanks everyone!

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  60. Thanks everyone for the positive remarks, now the proud owner of a black MK2 (7spd, disc brakes and folding handlebars X2), so impressed with it I'm now going to sell my full size alloy Barracuda!

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    1. The Barracuda has now gone to Wales! I've fitted a 42t chain wheel - perfect! Thanks everyone it's made so much difference. Also upped the front brake disc from 6" to 8" (203mm) for a bit more stopping power!

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    2. Barracuda now gone to Wales, replaced the front chainring with a 42t - perfect thank you! And upgraded the front brake disc to a 8" (203mm) for a bit more stopping power.

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  61. Bought one of these August 2023. Current spec is 36T sync and primary chainrings with a 12-28 7 speed cassette (not freewheel). Was trying to upgrade the primary chainring to 42T but the teeth just touch the chainstay. Ive noted someone previously changed the order of rings and soacers that I'll look at this week. Of possible interest mine's in the process of becoming a trike due to my stoker having significant spacial awareness and balance issues.

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